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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:30 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Hi RE Virus:

No. The Venus Project, in my opinion, is an attempt to create an Economic Eden. While I was impressed with the design of the project, however, I believe that those working on the Venus Project should take the following problems into account: 1) What do we do about the people who oppose the project? 2) What happens if the AI which governs the Economic Paradise falters? 3) How do we protect this Economic Paradise from external and / or internal sources trying to unravel it? (I appreciate you fielding the preceding queries; however, the architects of the Venus Project must take these "what-if" scenarios into account when blueprinting their ideal economic world.)

In my opinion, the third volume of the Zeitgeist films assumes that the Venus Project will predicate itself upon Paul-Michel Foucault's notion of discourse. Foucault operationally defines discourse as what society deems acceptable and unacceptable. What it fails to address, though, is Mikhail Bahktin's notion of carnival. For Bahktin, Foucaultian discourse represents what he calls the official culture of society, which encompasses communal norms. Those who think and behave in a way oppositional to those norms, though, embrace a specific type of antisocial delineation, one which Bahktin refers to as the unofficial culture of society. The thought processes and actions of the aforementioned persons are, from a Bahktinian perspective, carnival to their communities' beliefs (i.e., diametrically opposed to their societies' ideals). The idea of carnival is significant since this "undercurrent" is capable, at any moment, of disrupting the "natural order of things" in the social circles envisioned by the creators of the Venus Project.

I hope you don't think I'm too much of a skeptic.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:56 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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QuotidianPerfection wrote:
No. The Venus Project, in my opinion, is an attempt to create an Economic Eden.

On another planet! This is what you were saying... I think. :heh

Quote:
While I was impressed with the design of the project, however, I believe that those working on the Venus Project should take the following problems into account: 1) What do we do about the people who oppose the project?

This is beyond the point. The project would start after that problem has been solved (which is not about to happen).

Quote:
2) What happens if the AI which governs the Economic Paradise falters?

This is too broad a question. The only appropriate answer is that it won't falter. It is humans that govern it btw; AI is an instrument of natural human genius.

Quote:
3) How do we protect this Economic Paradise from external and / or internal sources trying to unravel it?

Internal sources wouldn't make much sense, and could be dealt with in a number of ways, as I've explained. External sources... well, that wouldn't be much different from now, would it?

Quote:
I hope you don't think I'm too much of a skeptic.

I hope you're too much of a real skeptic, i.e. not a pseudo-skeptic or "skeptics" cult member. What I would suggest is that you read (and watch and listen) much more into the subjects before making philosophical arguments for or against an idea.

You keep referring to the 3rd film, Zeitgeist Moving Forward. It looks like you didn't watch the first two. They explain the root problems in greater detail and should be watched before the 3rd film. It's also a good idea to watch all 3 a second time.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:44 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Hi RE Virus:

I like all three films. I just think, at times, the documentaries assume that X or Y will transpire.

Please bear in mind that many individuals do not care about the economic, politicial, or social conditions which surround them. They are too busy voting for the next American Idol.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:25 am  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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You're deviating from and missing the point again. Judge the idea itself, not the circumstances that would be required to bring it about.

If you are ready for more, here are three more must-see videos:

Money as Debt II

The Money Masters

The Secret of Oz

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:46 am  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:05 pm
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Hi RE Virus:

Thanks for the list.

By the way, we may not agree on everything, but probably concur on one point: the system of capitalism is flawed, leads to corruption, and, in worst case scenarios, can effectuate in the exploitation of others for one's personal gain.


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